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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | emptybox - 12/7/2009 16:39
I think the whole conversation was an attempt by Siavash, Freddie and marcus to influence Noirin against the other team
In that they believe the other team are a nasty bunch of users who don't have Noirin's best interests at heart I think they were definitely trying to persuade her of that.
Whether that's a bad thing is a matter of perspective 
I have to say that, having watched a lot of live feed recently, it has definitely reinforced my opinion that Marcus, Freddie and Noirin are the best three in there. I'd dearly like to see all three in the final, although I suspect that several of them will be very lucky to make it that far 
Regards
Julian
Edited by Julian 12/7/2009 22:18
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| As a non-watcher I'm not really qualified to comment on these varying views on the respective rights and wrongs of the teams and individuals.
However, I get the distinct impression that there IS an underlying consensus that none of the current HMs have yet earned "Worthy Winner" status or anyone's "undying loyalty".
So wouldn't it be a REALLY fitting development, if during this anniversary week if they did a re-run of the BB7 Meal or No Meal task and the "prize" who emerged "out of the box" proved to be the eventual winner. | |
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | ofni - 12/7/2009 22:37
So wouldn't it be a REALLY fitting development, if during this anniversary week if they did a re-run of the BB7 Meal or No Meal task and the "prize" who emerged "out of the box" proved to be the eventual winner.
Only if it was Aisleyne 
As much as I like Marcus and Noirin, I have settled on wanting Freddie to win for a good few weeks now. He also seems to be one of the clearest favourites in terms of the DS polls that I've seen in years, being close to 50% of the forum wanting him to win even when there were 11 people to choose from!
On top that, he's been the bookies' favourite almost since the start so he's going to be very tough to dislodge from the public's affections.
Regards
Julian | |
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Senate Member
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| Julian - 12/7/2009 22:11
bradley27 - 12/7/2009 16:10
whether he had anything to gain from lying or not doesnt matter, the fact is he lied. Marcus said he couldnt remember which were the names, thats possible, but Freddie lied completely by saying he wasnt there, claiming to be in the toilet at that specific time, but he was.
I think the motive is entirely relevant since, without one, it's far more likely that he was just mis-remembering rather than lying.
Personally I believe it would have been out of character to have lied at that point and I'm completely convinced that he believed he was telling the truth - but then my assessment of his character is clearly at odds with your own 
Regards
Julian
if it had been the case that he said that once when we saw it on the h/ls that might be fair enough, but on the lf that night he was talking endlessly about how he wasnt there and the fact he was on the toilet at the time. As he was the one mainly pushing Siavash to name names its hard to believe that he wouldnt have remembered that fact, yet he kept on claiming it, even when he was alone with Noirin. Thats why she told him to shut up on what we saw on the h/ls. He had already told her he didnt hear it but trusted Siavash and didnt trust the others and therefore they must have done it. Defending someone is one think but you sound stupid when you claim you didnt hear something but then defend the statement about who it was as fact.
That and the fact that Marcus and him spent hours on Friday night coming up with the most ludicous and pranoid rubbish about Lisa and Karly which was 10 times as bad as anything the others had ever said, as well as Freddie's previous nasty comments to other people about them and his dellusions that the likes of Angel and Noirin fancy him, even going to say that "Angel really really really fancied him" and on the outside he would sleep with her, as if he was doing her a favour, says more than enough about how he is. He is no worse than most of the others, but he is no better either. He is just one of a group of quite dissappointing nasty hms this year | |
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | I think he's quite the opposite of nasty, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Particularly since we're veering this thread a trifle off topic  | |
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| Julian - 12/7/2009 23:31
I think he's quite the opposite of nasty, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Particularly since we're veering this thread a trifle off topic
Well, Julian et al, here's Aisleyne's Monday blog to get us all back on track.
Some interesting insights, I thought, about Kris's eviction, Dogface and Noirin/Marcus ...
http://www.revealblog.co.uk/bbblog.ASP?articleID=1587
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | I agree with Aisleyne's sentiments about Kris and Dogface and I also agree that this year's practice of confronting new evictees with psychologists telling them how they're actually thinking and feeling is not right. I suppose it's BB's way of substituting for the lack of a psych show this year but I think it's very unfair and makes for uncomfortable viewing.
Ash is pretty much following mainstream thinking about Marcus and Noirin. I can't deny that Marcus is something of a Jack the lad with a very lewd manner about him and it's primarily this which is the source of Noirin's image problem. I think that Ash shares Lisa's and a lot of the public's view that someone like Noirin could never like someone like Marcus and, therefore, must be putting up with his lechery for her own ulterior motives.
But what's in it for Noirin to want to associate with one of the most disliked members of the house who is friends with the most disliked in the house? It's clearly not a tactical decision.
The highlights only tred to show Marcus being crude towards her but the live feed shows that they actually have a genuine friendship built on mutual admiration and respect and that Marcus has been very insightful and supportive of Noirin and her aspirations to become a better person through her experience in the house,
At the end of the day, Noirin has made it perfectly clear she's not interested in a romantic sense and Marcus has made it perfectly clear that he accepts there's a 99% chance that his attempts to take things further will get nowhere. So nobody is leading anybody on. Marcus is just going for the persistent approach - hey, it worked for my Dad
Regards
Julian | |
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Executive Member
Posts: 1644
Location: Edgware, Middlesex | I'm in total agreement with today's blog (I love it when that happens ).
I still like Marcus on the whole but he really should have got the message by now 
Regards
Julian | |
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| "Crocodile Tears?"
Link:
http://www.revealblog.co.uk/bbblog.ASP?articleID=1589
Is Aisleyne empathising with a potential "journey" of self -discovery, maybe?
Edited by ofni 14/7/2009 12:38
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| Aisleyne's Wednesday blog now posted
http://www.revealblog.co.uk/bbblog.ASP
"I love it, I love it, I love it!"
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I thought it was awful and made worse by the fact the ex-hms have obviously been told to tell them stuff. If they hadnt then they wouldnt let us see it. Totally defeats the point of cutting them off. Craig shouldnt have said what he did and there has been plenty of stuff being said, and thats just what we are shown, goodness knows how much is being told to them that we arent seeing.
I thought for once Rod had every right to be in a bit of a sulk. Firstly Charlie did rudely ignore him and then his task was pathetic and short with no contact. I bet the others were just thrilled to see anyone, just having someone new to talk to would be exciting | |
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | I agree with Bradley actually. I don't like it when the housemates get to know (or think they know) what the outside world is thinking because it can influence their behaviour and not necessarily for the better.
Aisleyne was adversely affected by the boos every week which were not a fair reflection of what people really thought of her. Jayne's opinions of Ash from what she'd seen on the outside unfairly influenced Nicki and others in the house to think ill of her. Max and Saskia were adversely affected by the cheers they got one eviction night and it automatically made them a target for Makosi and her team while also making them over-confident (in the public's eyes arrogant) and souring the public's early affection for them.
I just don't think it is ever helpful to be getting outside info. It's often misleading and it's not fair to all concerned
As for Roderigo's tantrum: while he was justifiablly upset about his lot he was not justified in blaming Charlie for not putting him down for BB9 just because he said so. It was a group decision based on who they thought was most suitable and, in any case, it was no one's fault that BB3 was a dud task, there's no guarantee that BB9 wouldn't have been just as dud.
I'm finding Roderigo increasingly petulant and hot-tempered and, while I didn't have much of a view of him before, my opinion of him is now on its way down.
Regards
Julian | |
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Senate Member
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| Julian - 15/7/2009 19:17
I agree with Bradley actually. I don't like it when the housemates get to know (or think they know ) what the outside world is thinking because it can influence their behaviour and not necessarily for the better.
Aisleyne was adversely affected by the boos every week which were not a fair reflection of what people really thought of her. Jayne's opinions of Ash from what she'd seen on the outside unfairly influenced Nicki and others in the house to think ill of her. Max and Saskia were adversely affected by the cheers they got one eviction night and it automatically made them a target for Makosi and her team while also making them over-confident (in the public's eyes arrogant ) and souring the public's early affection for them.
I just don't think it is ever helpful to be getting outside info. It's often misleading and it's not fair to all concerned
As for Roderigo's tantrum: while he was justifiablly upset about his lot he was not justified in blaming Charlie for not putting him down for BB9 just because he said so. It was a group decision based on who they thought was most suitable and, in any case, it was no one's fault that BB3 was a dud task, there's no guarantee that BB9 wouldn't have been just as dud.
I'm finding Roderigo increasingly petulant and hot-tempered and, while I didn't have much of a view of him before, my opinion of him is now on its way down.
Regards
Julian
with regards to Rod, whilst indeed it was a group decision Charlie did basically ignore him and just listen to Marcus. As for basing it on who was most suitable is a typical nonsense from the guy who should have been kicked out long ago, Marcus. No one knew what the tasks were so how can you choose on suitibility.
Then as for the task, that was no ones fault, but it was pathetic and I can quite understand anyone getting upset by that. He had no contact and it was over in less than a minute. The bordom level in there must be massive and with others getting to spend time with someone from the outside (whoever they were) would be a massive lift. He wasnt given that and it was wrong of BB, to whoever did that task | |
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | bradley27 - 15/7/2009 22:40
Then as for the task, that was no ones fault, but it was pathetic and I can quite understand anyone getting upset by that. He had no contact and it was over in less than a minute. The bordom level in there must be massive and with others getting to spend time with someone from the outside (whoever they were) would be a massive lift. He wasnt given that and it was wrong of BB, to whoever did that task
It'll be interesting to see what the BB9 task actually is. If it's another no contact one it'll be quite ironic
I have to say, having read all about Marcus and Norin's argument last night and read the DS WHATM thread I am inclined to withdraw any support I had for Marcus. By all accounts he tried to lay a psychological guilt trip on Noirin just because she'd been getting along with Siavash again, then he proceeded to lay into her with a list of her faults and hang-ups using private information she'd confided in him about her life.
Apparently, Noirin held up her end admirably with a formidable display of restraint, logic and reasoned argument in the face of relentless and nonsensical brow-beating.
From the sound of it, the little they showed on the highlights didn't do her nearly enough credit or Marcus nearly enough discredit 
Having said that, it's all hearsay from my point of view as my Sky+ decided to develop a signal failure during that particular bout of live streaming so I missed seeing it all in person 
Still, enough former Marcus fans jumped ship on DS last night for me to feel reasonably confident that he deserves it.
Regards
Julian | |
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Location: Scottish Borders | The BB9 task is the electric shock one with Rex.  Probably all the hms will be wired up inside, and Rex and Marcus will compete in the garden. | |
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Senate Member
Posts: 794
| emptybox - 16/7/2009 00:01
The BB9 task is the electric shock one with Rex. Probably all the hms will be wired up inside, and Rex and Marcus will compete in the garden.
yeah thats what I heard.
It just seems weird that the BB3 task was just nothing with no contact. Very unfair to whoever it was going to be. | |
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Senate Member
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| Julian - 15/7/2009 23:41
bradley27 - 15/7/2009 22:40
Then as for the task, that was no ones fault, but it was pathetic and I can quite understand anyone getting upset by that. He had no contact and it was over in less than a minute. The bordom level in there must be massive and with others getting to spend time with someone from the outside (whoever they were) would be a massive lift. He wasnt given that and it was wrong of BB, to whoever did that task
It'll be interesting to see what the BB9 task actually is. If it's another no contact one it'll be quite ironic
I have to say, having read all about Marcus and Norin's argument last night and read the DS WHATM thread I am inclined to withdraw any support I had for Marcus. By all accounts he tried to lay a psychological guilt trip on Noirin just because she'd been getting along with Siavash again, then he proceeded to lay into her with a list of her faults and hang-ups using private information she'd confided in him about her life.
Apparently, Noirin held up her end admirably with a formidable display of restraint, logic and reasoned argument in the face of relentless and nonsensical brow-beating.
From the sound of it, the little they showed on the highlights didn't do her nearly enough credit or Marcus nearly enough discredit
Having said that, it's all hearsay from my point of view as my Sky+ decided to develop a signal failure during that particular bout of live streaming so I missed seeing it all in person
Still, enough former Marcus fans jumped ship on DS last night for me to feel reasonably confident that he deserves it.
Regards
Julian
have to say I thought her edit was good for her in terms of the show, but it really covered up the worst of his behaviour and just looked like any other day with the two of them. Whilst they obviously cant show everything on h/ls they could have shown that it went on for a very long time and how he belittled her again and again and even how he was having a go at Sia as well after coming out of the DR where even he said he was furious. Why not show that DR visit?
I think they were just covering themselves, because if they had shown the worst of it, the might have had all sorts of problems to deal with
Edited by bradley27 16/7/2009 00:27
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| Aisleyne's Thursday blog
"BB Goes Retro"
http://www.revealblog.co.uk/bbblog.ASP?articleID=1596
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Executive Member
Posts: 1644
Location: Edgware, Middlesex |
Loving Aisleyne's acronym for Marcus:
Misogynistic Arrogant Repulsive Cretin Undermining Sloth
Mind you, I don't think I agree on the sloth part
Regards
Julian | |
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Looks like a bit of a glitch on the website making yesterday's blog unviewable.
But you can view it (and most other days also) on the handbag.com site here:
http://www.handbag.com/Reveal/I-love...-love-it%21/v1 | |
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Executive Member
Posts: 1644
Location: Edgware, Middlesex | Julian - 15/7/2009 23:41
I have to say, having read all about Marcus and Norin's argument last night and read the DS WHATM thread I am inclined to withdraw any support I had for Marcus. By all accounts he tried to lay a psychological guilt trip on Noirin just because she'd been getting along with Siavash again, then he proceeded to lay into her with a list of her faults and hang-ups using private information she'd confided in him about her life.
Apparently, Noirin held up her end admirably with a formidable display of restraint, logic and reasoned argument in the face of relentless and nonsensical brow-beating.
From the sound of it, the little they showed on the highlights didn't do her nearly enough credit or Marcus nearly enough discredit
Having said that, it's all hearsay from my point of view as my Sky+ decided to develop a signal failure during that particular bout of live streaming so I missed seeing it all in person
Still, enough former Marcus fans jumped ship on DS last night for me to feel reasonably confident that he deserves it.
Regards
Julian
My turn to play the rabbit, I think
Somebody directed me to some video of the live feed and, having watched it now, it seems to me that the reaction to it on DigitalSpy was a little bit misleading.
I was expecting some kind of blazing row or a tearful Noirin trying to weather a barrage of unjustified criticism.
What it looked like to me was two friends who really care about each other airing their differences and coming to an amicable conclusion after an intense give and take discussion.
I don't agree with some of Marcus' views but I understand what he was trying to say and some of it was fair. I do think that it was primarily motivated by worry that Noirin might go on Friday and I also think it's clear that Noirin likes and respects Marcus and, despite his faults (and Aisleyne's take on those are still pretty accurate), I think he has a lot of good qualities too.
The other thing that struck me about that discussion was not so much Noirin's ability to puncture Marcus' arguments so deftly but her awareness of her faults and general desire to improve herself and learn from her experience. It's the sort of thing they really ought to show more of on the highlights...
Regards
Julian
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Senate Member
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| Julian - 16/7/2009 23:58
Julian - 15/7/2009 23:41
I have to say, having read all about Marcus and Norin's argument last night and read the DS WHATM thread I am inclined to withdraw any support I had for Marcus. By all accounts he tried to lay a psychological guilt trip on Noirin just because she'd been getting along with Siavash again, then he proceeded to lay into her with a list of her faults and hang-ups using private information she'd confided in him about her life.
Apparently, Noirin held up her end admirably with a formidable display of restraint, logic and reasoned argument in the face of relentless and nonsensical brow-beating.
From the sound of it, the little they showed on the highlights didn't do her nearly enough credit or Marcus nearly enough discredit
Having said that, it's all hearsay from my point of view as my Sky+ decided to develop a signal failure during that particular bout of live streaming so I missed seeing it all in person
Still, enough former Marcus fans jumped ship on DS last night for me to feel reasonably confident that he deserves it.
Regards
Julian
My turn to play the rabbit, I think
Somebody directed me to some video of the live feed and, having watched it now, it seems to me that the reaction to it on DigitalSpy was a little bit misleading.
I was expecting some kind of blazing row or a tearful Noirin trying to weather a barrage of unjustified criticism.
What it looked like to me was two friends who really care about each other airing their differences and coming to an amicable conclusion after an intense give and take discussion.
I don't agree with some of Marcus' views but I understand what he was trying to say and some of it was fair. I do think that it was primarily motivated by worry that Noirin might go on Friday and I also think it's clear that Noirin likes and respects Marcus and, despite his faults (and Aisleyne's take on those are still pretty accurate ), I think he has a lot of good qualities too.
The other thing that struck me about that discussion was not so much Noirin's ability to puncture Marcus' arguments so deftly but her awareness of her faults and general desire to improve herself and learn from her experience. It's the sort of thing they really ought to show more of on the highlights...
Regards
Julian
I can only assume that you didnt watch the whole 3 hours of it. Nor see how he behaved towards Sia, for having the cheek to put things behind and be friendly with Noirin again. | |
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | I skipped the early part of the feed and started when Marcus came out of the diary room and confronted Siavash. While I don't agree with Marcus' sentiments I was originally expecting a heated argument rather than the quiet disagreement that actually transpired.
My take on it is that Marcus was upset with both Siavash and Noirin for essentially getting each other nominated. In particular, he was prrtty certain that in his head that Noirin would be going on Friday and was confused that Noirin could be friendly towards the person who caused this.
He'd already given Noirin advice about opening her eyes to people and not being so friendly towards those who are just using her or who don't have her best interests at heart (at the time referring to Lisa and her crew). In his mind, you are good to people who are good to you and should have nothing to do with people who are bad to you. Being good to those who mean you ill essentially makes you a mug and since two days ago it was clear that both Siavash and Noirin disliked each other intensely and had wronged each other significantly, he figured they were both being mugs by allowing themselves to get close again.
Of course, I think he is completely wrong in that view. I think that it is a great thing not to hold grudges and to try to move past your differences but, while I don't agree with his opinion, I'm not convinced it was coming from the jealous, controlling place that others do. Even if it was, neither Siavash nor Noirin took huge offense at it, or were overly swayed by it, so it didn't seem to me to be quite as despicable as was being made out.
Just my opinion...
Regards
Julian | |
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Senate Member
Posts: 794
| Julian - 17/7/2009 11:53
I skipped the early part of the feed and started when Marcus came out of the diary room and confronted Siavash. While I don't agree with Marcus' sentiments I was originally expecting a heated argument rather than the quiet disagreement that actually transpired.
My take on it is that Marcus was upset with both Siavash and Noirin for essentially getting each other nominated. In particular, he was prrtty certain that in his head that Noirin would be going on Friday and was confused that Noirin could be friendly towards the person who caused this.
He'd already given Noirin advice about opening her eyes to people and not being so friendly towards those who are just using her or who don't have her best interests at heart (at the time referring to Lisa and her crew). In his mind, you are good to people who are good to you and should have nothing to do with people who are bad to you. Being good to those who mean you ill essentially makes you a mug and since two days ago it was clear that both Siavash and Noirin disliked each other intensely and had wronged each other significantly, he figured they were both being mugs by allowing themselves to get close again.
Of course, I think he is completely wrong in that view. I think that it is a great thing not to hold grudges and to try to move past your differences but, while I don't agree with his opinion, I'm not convinced it was coming from the jealous, controlling place that others do. Even if it was, neither Siavash nor Noirin took huge offense at it, or were overly swayed by it, so it didn't seem to me to be quite as despicable as was being made out.
Just my opinion...
Regards
Julian
you really needed to see the way he was at the beginning and the fact that he refused to allow for the fact that she was entitled to ask him to stop. He constantly attacked the way she was and was furious when coming out of the DR because Siavash and Noirin had made up. Add to the fact the constant wearing down by Marcus and HW night after night when she was unsure of people, it made it very nasty to watch. He is controlling and abusive (abuse doesnt always mean shouting), by attacking everything she does with others and telling others half truths about Noirin he had built a bridge between her and the rest. Just what an abusive controlling person does.
The trouble is you feel he is offering advice when talking about "opening her eyes", etc, but the point is its purely paranoia on his part (where the likes of him and HW are just as bad as the people they criticise) and also designed to leave her confused and unsure and therefore needing him.
We have seen him talk to others about how he will pursue things because she cant get away. The likes of HW seemed to find that funny. Also it has to be seen that this isnt just a short thing, he has been doing this most days for hours upon end, till he gets the result he wants, hence the end that you saw.
The guy has no idea on reality and ignores the things he does and says whether they are racist or threatening. Whether you wish to claim what he did with sree in mimicing his accent in a condescending and nasty manner, what you can not deny was he threatened the guy on the outside, yet Marcus claimed that Sree was in his face (not true) and he wasnt threatening and was in fact threatened himself. presented with his own words, he still refused to admit it, because people like him can not admit their failings, which are many. The best thing for Noirin would be to go tonight and then maybe with the help of friends she might realise that she is best away from what is becoming a controlling relationship.
Why BB chose to protect him or even put into the house an obvious danger is beyond me. However the defence of him stuns me copletely. Saying that I dont see much difference between the way he is and the way brian Belo behaved on the h/ls last night, but he is considered sweet, when in fact he has a terrible attitude to women as well
Edited by bradley27 17/7/2009 14:29
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Executive Member
Posts: 1644
Location: Edgware, Middlesex | Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I find reprehensible about his behaviour but being abusive suggests he is deliberately trying to tear her down and, in my opinion, his intention id actually to build her up. I think Noirin believes that too which is why she puts up with him.
One thing I agreed with him in that argument, is that I don't think it's particularly healthy of Noirin to resent other people trying to help her, protect her or pay her compliments. I can understand if it's just because it's Marcus but I get the feeling she's like that with everyone and I think you should learn to take help and compliments in the spirit that they are given rather than being too proud to accept them.
Blog's up, by the way
Regards
Julian | |
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Reveal magazine - Aisleyne's Big Brother 10 Blog
