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Location: Holland | i think youse have all heard about maddie  its such a shame, and worse because it was her birthday yesterday. the person who did this should be put in a oven, jail wont do out..it will probably get reduced to a year. please pay your respects here. i hope she gets found, she could be anywhere in the world why do people do this, its sick xxxxxxxx |
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| I feel terrible for this little girl...but she trusted her parents to look after her...and they left her in the middle of a foreign country in a hotel room with her sleeping brother and sister and went off for a meal! They said that they came back to check on their children every half an hour, but the Hotel Staff said they did not do any such thing...
Whether they came back to check or not...they put their pleasure over their childrens safety. They could all have gone out for a meal as a family, but the couple decided to think about themselves and leave their children with no responsible adult to take care of them. When you have a daughter age four and two other children are you going to tell me that you would leave them somewhere strange on their own....supposing they woke up scared or troubled while their parents are out of the room....
I think these parents are totally and utterly irresponsible and when these children go missing or wicked people take advantage of parents being absent the only people to blame are the parents. Parents are there to take care of you...if you cant trust them to be there to protect you....then they are not good parents.
I hope and pray this girl is safe and I pity her from the bottom of my heart for having parents like that.
Remember that other little girl Sarah who got abducted and murdered in Sussex..? both her parents were down the pub at the time..... 
Edited by Odm 13/5/2007 22:56
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Executive Member
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | I think the parents deserve sympathy not censure. They didn't abduct the kid and if her siblings didn't hear anything there's no reason to believe that the parents would have. It was a deliberate and planned abduction out of the child's bedroom. Not something anyone could have foreseen or prevented.
By all accounts they were eating within view of their lodgings. I'd hardly call that abandoning anyone. Put the blame where it belongs, at the monsters who took the kid, the parents will be blaming themselves quite enough without any help from the public.
Regards
Julian |
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Location: Scottish Borders | It's a terrible situation, and I really hope the little girl is found alive and well. Unfortunately that is looking more and more unlikely as time goes on. |
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| Julian - 13/5/2007 23:10
I think the parents deserve sympathy not censure. They didn't abduct the kid and if her siblings didn't hear anything there's no reason to believe that the parents would have. It was a deliberate and planned abduction out of the child's bedroom. Not something anyone could have foreseen or prevented.
By all accounts they were eating within view of their lodgings. I'd hardly call that abandoning anyone. Put the blame where it belongs, at the monsters who took the kid, the parents will be blaming themselves quite enough without any help from the public.
Regards
Julian
When things like this happen.. and I am a parent too, there is sorrow on a large scale..for me it is at the negligence of parents who leave their children on their own.
I have never, would never and would not consider leaving a four year old child on their own. If they had been with their children in the first place where they belonged, there would be no window of opportunity for evil people to get their hands on that little girl.
For strange reasons people have a habit of overlooking the root of things...the root is, that this girls parents were NOT IN THE ROOM that is the harsh truth..
I am sorry for the little girl truly I am.
Edited by Odm 13/5/2007 23:34
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| I agree with odm. I'm sure it could have been avoided, but I think that her parents are aware of this and have suffered enough. I hope she turns up safely. |
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | Odm - 13/5/2007 23:32
For strange reasons people have a habit of overlooking the root of things...the root is, that this girls parents were NOT IN THE ROOM that is the harsh truth..
I don't see that as the root at all. How many parents sleep in the same room as their kids? If they had been sleeping in the apartment instead of eating a few yards away from it I don't see that it would have made the slightest bit of difference.
You can't plan for someone breaking in and stealing a kid out of a bedroom window. I don't care how careful you are I don't see how there would have been any chance of preventing something like that.
Regards
Julian
Edited by Julian 14/5/2007 22:06
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| I was even more appalled today to learn that not only was Madeline left in this hotel room at the age of four but she was the eldest of three children ...the other two children were twins who were only TWO years of age! These children interestingly, were also the product of IVF treatment making them very precious children I would have thought as this couple obviously must have had trouble conceiving. Even more a reason in my view not to leave children of that small age unattended then go and dine 100 metres away in a bar that actually was obscured in view from the apartment where these children slept. The parents, went out of the hotel at 9.30 in the evening...a time when you would think they would be around their children bearing as it was night time. However, I respect whatever peoples views are, we are all different..as a mother I have criticised this woman and have no intention of taking back my opinion in this case as the parents neglected to put their childrens safety first. I see there are hundreds of mothers on the internet who feel exactly the same way as I do.
Edited by Odm 14/5/2007 22:16
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| Leaving our children alone at that age is a gamble we would have never dreamed of taking. I really hope they are lucky this time and learn from their terrible experience. |
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Location: Edgware, Middlesex | Odm - 14/5/2007 22:11
I was even more appalled today to learn that not only was Madeline left in this hotel room at the age of four but she was the eldest of three children ...the other two children were twins who were only TWO years of age!
 Hmm, I was somehow under the impression she was the youngest of the three. I'll admit that puts a different slant on it. If they're all that young then it was not particularly responsible leaving them alone. On the other hand, that's for entirely different reasons.
I still maintain that in this particular case it wouldn't have made the slightest difference if the parents had been there or not. This was an apartment, as I understand it, not a hotel. They would not have been in the same room as the kids bedroom and if the other kids didn't wake up then there's no reason to believe the parents would have.
Regards
Julian |
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| http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6695998,00.html
I have been reading a lot of the latest reports on this matter and though I worry constantly for Madeline along with goodness knows how many other people around the world at this current time, I still have deep reservations about the real motives of her parents.
It appears that they are now staying all summer in the Algarve and this all being bought and paid for on the money that has gone into the website which they set up for Madeline and missing children. I am horribly unconvinced by these two people who are Madelines parents, its just something deep down that concerns me more and more about the way they act and what they are doing. There is enough coverage of Madelines disappearance to remind everyone that she is missing and it does not seem right that these people are dragging about their other two very young children when they could be at home giving them a normal routine. The McCanns need to let the authorities deal with this case. They themselves have turned into some kind of media celebrities that turn my guts.
I hope they find this little girl. Its true to say though had her parents been a council house ordinary out of work average nobody, I doubt anyone would have given a hoot. I also think that the public would have had plenty of incriminating things to say about leaving young children alone the way these people have. Also, that it was confirmed that they left a patio door open as WELL!
If I am to feel sorry for them, I would have to force myself but its all their own fault and whether they are doctors, or King Canute the fact is, they thought more of their own evening plans than the safety of their kids. Now, the public are paying them to have an ALL -OUT holiday all summer long and earn a medium celebrity status as 'those poor people' when in fact they are a total disgrace...
I wont give anything to this appeal in case it goes towards another dinner that makes them leave the other two children unattended...
Disgusting! |
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Location: Holland | after like over 100 days..still not found..its still sad..im not sure wether it was her parents..50/50 really..but why would they do anything like that?? they have twins aswell and they know how much like pain it would cause everyone..if they did accidentally over dose her..you would have thought they would have come clean..
but i cant see them doing it..they would have given in by now..because of all the money they have been given, and the reward they put up..and everything else..
i dont actually think the parents did it now..i hope she gets found soon xxxx |
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Executive Member
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| What disappoints me is that the money being donated by people who cared for Maddie may now be used to pay the parents legal bills. That's just wrong. |
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Location: Holland | is it really?? i didnt hear about that..i only just found out aswell like..that theey hired a car after maddie disppeared?? what went on there?? i keep believing they didnt do it..then i think..they might have had a part..but at the moment..i dont think they did..but there are possibilities( long word lol)
Edited by sophie 11/9/2007 17:12
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Executive Member
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| Its such a shame about Maddie, she seems like such a sweetie, i hope shes found alive and well soon. 
I really dont think her parents did it. I might be wrong but i believe they're innocent and that they're being framed.xxxx
Edited by becki 11/9/2007 17:24
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Location: Barrow-Cumbria | i think the parents did it, NO OFFENCE! |
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Location: Holland | iv just seen some news..and they have found some evidence in the car..like.. i cant remeber what it was sorry..but its more evidence..i still dont think it was them though, but the evidence is strong for those who think they did like
blimey im writing dead posh lately aint i lol |
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| http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6989960.stm
Thats the latest news on it i think.
I read this in the paper the other day aswell and i thought i would post it coz its interesting to read.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007420116,00.html |
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| Thanks for the links Becki.
Whatever happens, I do think they should be punished by social services for leaving the kids alone that night - people like that really shouldn't be parents. |
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Location: Holland | omg..i cant believe the cops are saying they can prove they did kill her..you would have though they would be supporting them..not saying..oo they have the smell of death on them..how can you smell death?? and now their tracking every phone call down aint they..like listening back to them because its legal aint it.. i think the police shoudl give them more respect..what if maddie has really gone missing?? the police are going to look really stupied..i just hope maddie gets found really soon
Edited by sophie 11/9/2007 19:19
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Location: Holland | i found this from myspace:
Forensic test results are expected to be central to the file of evidence presented to Portuguese prosecutors by police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
What DNA evidence has been found?
Sky sources have said three different samples have produced positive results:
One full DNA match has been found on the windowsill of the apartment from which Madeleine disappeared. This may not be important as Madeleine could have touched the windowsill earlier in the holiday.
One partial DNA match has been found in the Renault Scenic car hired by the McCanns 25 days after their daughter's disappearance.
One full DNA match has been found in the hire car - it is 99.9% certain that it comes from Madeleine.
What do Portuguese police believe?
Sky sources say that, based on what they know, the police investigating Madeleine's disappearance believe she was killed and that her body was at some point placed in the boot of the hire car.
Is there any other explanation?
Yes - DNA can be transferred directly from the person but also indirectly, by another person or object.
DNA expert Dr Richard Leary believes even a full match test result can be delivered by indirect, transfer DNA.
Forensic scientist Dr John Manlove has told Sky News that it is not always clear by which method a DNA sample has been transferred.
"In some cases its more positive that it would have been a primary transfer but with small amounts of DNA it is not necessarily possible to make such sweeping statements," said Dr Manlove.
How crucial is DNA evidence to the investigation?
Forensic expert Dr Richard Leary has told Sky News that Portuguese police can use DNA evidence to guide their investigation, but that other sources of evidence must be considered.
"Forensic evidence must be seen in the light of the case as a whole - timelines and accounts will be tested and compared. Police can then see how forensic evidence supports one side or another."
How long do DNA samples last?
It depends on the environment they are kept in, according to forensic expert Professor Allan Jameson.
"DNA can last for a long time, depending on the conditions," he told Sky News. "Light, bacteria, dampness - all those things will help deteriorate the DNA. Dry, cold conditions on the other hand can preserve DNA for years." |
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Location: Holland | ermm a dunno..have you got one of those?? |
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| bengos - 12/9/2007 20:10 *black humour post: since deleted at authors request* I think that is in rather bad taste considering.
Edited by emptybox 13/9/2007 02:36
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Executive Member
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| I thought people might be interested in reading this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/13/nma...
The film does seem so similar to whats happened, and i do think if its released now it could cause upset, especially with the family and friends of Madeline, so its good that they've saved it till later in the year.xxxx |
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| It's a shame people have jumped to conclusions, even on here, based on rumours and speculation. As has been made clear, the parents weren't holidaying at the expense of the Find Madeleine fund, and they weren't using it to pay their legal costs. People are very quick to say, "they should have done this" or "they should have done that," but they were advised (by people who know) that their best chance of getting their daughter back was maximum publicity. Wouldn't you do whatever it took, in those circumstances?
As for whether they did it - in spite of the flurry of leaks about DNA "evidence" it looks pretty implausible. Where would they have concealed the body? Kate couldn't possibly have done it when she went to check on the kids at 10.00 - not enough time to realise she was dead (from a blow, or from an overdose of sedatives) decide what to do and hide the body somewhere. Where? Not in the apartment - people were all over it from the moment she started screaming, no chance to move it before it started to smell. Outside? Where? As holiday makers, it would have been extremely remarkable if they had been able to find somewhere in those few moments - again, somewhere which wasn't searched, and again considering the inevitable smell. If you go for the scenario of her being killed earlier, the same problem applies. Where to hide the body?
And then to come back some time around four weeks later and move it. Never mind the risk of being seen, what about the state the body would have been in by then? And in the midst of all this Hammer-House-of-Horror scenario, they calmly continue giving interviews, meeting the pope, being followed everywhere they go by a posse of journalists. It would take some pretty clear forensic evidence to counteract the implausibility of that. Like hair taken from the hire-car - but not hair that had simply been shed from a live child and been tranferred from her clothes, her hair-brush, but hair that had fallen from a decomposing corpse. It's actually very easy to tell the difference between the two - a microscopic examination of the hair roots would do it. Should have taken no more than a few days from finding it - it would have been unanswerable, you arrest them. The fact that they haven't, and that they're scratching around for any other kind of evidence they can think of, suggests that they don't have any proper forensic evidence, let alone sufficient to overcome the implausibility factor.
Sure, they shouldn't have left the kids. I suspect they may have worked that out for themselves by now - no need to pile on the guilt. There's a lot of inverted snobbery around this. When kids are found alone, the parents (even scruffy working-class parents) are usually given a warning - they are rarely taken into care first time unless there are other factors. Cut them some slack - they were on holiday, relaxed, in a place which felt supremely safe and child friendly. They were in sight of the apartment - OK, out of earshot. They made a mistake - an awful mistake.
And meanwhile, Maddie is still missing. If it turns out that the Portugese police are persuing this case against the parents with utterly inadequate evidence, as it appears, and distracting them from doing what they need to do to find their daughter - or indeed distracting their own efforts from what needs to be done - they will be very culpable indeed. Their only excuse would be naivite about the role of DNA and other forensic evidence in proving a case - but that's really no excuse. |
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| You make a very good case, Sadie-Mae.
Being honest, I really don't know what the truth is. None of us do.
Whilst it's implausible, as you state, so is a random abduction without anyone being seen or any evidence at all anywhere. |
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| Thats a well good post Sadie Mae.
I read your post and i agree with you loads.
I still believe Kate and Gerry McCann are innocent.xxxx
Edited by becki 13/9/2007 23:38
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| The latest, apparently, is that the police have leaked extracts from her diary to the press, which make her look bad (complaining that the twins are "hysterical" ) - while the McCann's themselves aren't allowed to say a word, aren't even allowed to know what the evidence against them is. Of course the press could be making up all the so-called leaks - in a big story like this, with no official news coming out, they'll resort to anything.
Edited by Sadie-Mae 13/9/2007 23:30
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Executive Member
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| Yes, I wouldn't believe much of what you read in the papers.
It will be interesting if this case goes to trial just how much evidence they have against them. |
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Executive Member
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| Well its like when they said the blood match is 100% Maddies, then they said its 88% Maddies (something similar to 88%).
I dont believe half of what the papers say.xxxx |
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Executive Member
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| I don't trust DNA evidence anyway.
Yeah, a 1 in 5 million chance of a duplicate match/person sounds a lot, but that means there's 10 people in the UK who have the same DNA as me. I don't like those odds lol |
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Executive Member
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| Just found this:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/no-proof-against-mccanns/2007/0...
Looks like they dont have enough evidence to charge Kate and Gerry McCann.
Also this link:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1284258,00.html
Wouldnt it be amazing if Madeline was found safe and well?! I know some people think thats unlikely but theres always hope xxxx
Edited by becki 15/9/2007 15:50
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Location: Wakefield | I hope so... but its been ages now |
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Location: Barrow-Cumbria | waaa waaa |
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Location: Scottish Borders | Well done Robbie!  That's very colourful banner you've got there.  |
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| http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gx0HoF5ddSZkuOibjTbxMcRJAO8w
It looks like it wasnt Maddie in the photo in Morocco. I hope shes found soon, its been ages now. xxxx
Edited by becki 26/9/2007 23:42
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Executive Member
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| I actually got some hope that it might've been her in Morocco aswell.
The longer the time goes on, the worse it looks. :( |
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Junior Member
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| Unfortunately this one never looked very likely - a family of poor Moroccans strolling openly along a road...? If Madeleine is still alive, it's not likely that whoever has her is going to risk her being seen - unless she's been sold for adoption to a couple who don't know her history.
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Location: Wales | Really sad to find it wasnt maddie in the picture , i dont believe that the mccans are guilty of anything other than leaving the children alone and as sadie-mae says im pretty sure they feel guilty enough it helps nobody to pile anymore on to them .
There are many things however in this that dont sit right with me but what i couldnt say i just hope they find this poor little girl alive and well allthough as time goes by its getting harder and harder to see that happening :( |
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find maddie